Bobby Ore's 4-8 shuffle steering system

[Marin Para]

Hey gang!

Nice to be here with all of you "driving nuts".

Does anyone have experience with Bobby Ore's shuffling technique? Learned, tried, experienced, applied...
I am about to attend his class and seems like a good choice.

The only thing I am concerned a tad about Bobby Ore's teachings is his "proprietary" shuffle steering system.
Having a racing and Tactical /Urban Vehicular Combat Driving background is going to be kind of hard for me to overwrite everything I know learned and work with for 25 years.

I was trying the 4-8 hand position and it works fine, but when it comes to sharp/high speed maneuvers from the parked position, three points turn (with no handbrake), and reverse cone slalom... . .well... . I might be wrong though, but I believe that 4-8 shuffle can not be more efficient than "palming"
Please help me with this if you can.

Here is the scenario:
I am parked. Front wheels full right. The space between me and the vehicle in front is sufficient for me to get out in one "shot". Now, in order to get out, my way, I palm the steering wheel full left (3 full revolutions), make my corner pass, palm the steering wheel to put the wheels straight (2 revolutions). That's two moves; out and parallel with the vehicle that was parked in front of me in under 2 seconds, smooth, fast, clean.

I have tried Bobby Ore's shuffle steering in exact scenario and.. .. .way slower, less precise, and the motion of the car is jerky especially after I cleared the corner and try to put the wheels straight. Plus that the radius was bigger as well.

Is just me, unable to apply the above mentioned technique or this technique is not suited for this maneuver.

For the reverse cone slalom... same thing... I execute this maneuver with my left hand at 1200 doing 60-80 km/h
With Bobby Ore's shuffle system not even close to that speed, maybe 30-40km/h

But again... I did not learned the above mentioned technique directly from him. Just trying to do it on my own (kinna thing) based on readings about it.

Any input?

[Steve Buckley]

There are so many different steering techniques that I believe it all depends on the situation you are in to what technique is advisable.

The biggest difference between Ore's shuffle steer and ours is where I have my drivers hold their hands on the wheel. Anytime you use a 'shuffle' or 'pull/push' steering application the higher the hands on the initial input the better. Holding your hands at the 8-4 doesn't allow for very much initial input to the steering wheel - which I also believe he calls 'mirror steer' - basically your hands are opposite at all times on the wheel. I believe that with your hands at the 8-4 you WILL NOT be able to accomplish what you descibed unless you start with your hands higher on the wheel.

If I start any steering input with my hands at the 11-1 on the wheel I can accomplish - if done correctly - any turn at any speed with no more then 2 inputs. Now, this also depends on the speed of the vehicle as to where I hold my hands on the wheel for the first input - lower when fast, higher when slow. The one thing we do not allow is any of our drivers to 'palm' the wheel while going forward. If shuffle steering is done correctly then a driver should at anytime have enough steering - intial and counter steering - to control the vehicle in any condition.

So, I guess to answer your question . . . no. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, it's just not suited for that maneuver.

One of the other reason's we won't allow 'palming' is because we would never use it on a film, or commercial set. We would prefer that when the driver is seen in a vehicle commercial that they use a controlled steering technique to imply control to the viewer - plus, most director's I have worked for would prefer the driver to use some version of 'shuffle' steering.

Bobby is an amazing driver, and instructor. Like you though, I have spent years in various driving conditions. The techniques I use in film aren't exactly the same I use in a counter terrorism arena, nor in law enforcement.

Take the information he gives you, apply them the best way YOU know how and make it yours.

[Marin Para]

Thanks Steve,

Very nice contribution with your answer.
I intend to go there with an open mind and absorb as much information and techniques as possible. As you mentioned there are techniques and techniques that are applying to situations and situations.
Maybe there is something more than just what the eyes meet in his 4-8 technique.

One thing is for sure... in the last 3-4 days I am practicing this technique in the day by day driving. Yesterday I asked my wife if she noticed anything different in the way the car feels while driving.
"For one -she said- lately you are not speeding anymore. Second you don't take the corners as sharp as you use to, and you are not swimming anymore" ("swimming" like a fish is her code name for changing lanes frequently at high rate of speed). As well she noticed me holding the hands "awfully low" on the steering wheel. "I was going to ask you -she said- what's up with that"...
I was going to answer "Non of your business" but then I thought... Nahhhhh...Marin just shut up and shuffle" LOL!!!!